we're calling on full transparency and openness from the Chinese Communist Party not just to the United States it's really China's trying to the Chinese government tries to make this about China versus the US it's not we're not the only country that have called for an investigation the Australians have the Germans have many in the United Kingdom have called for transparency even the EU's foreign minister admitted that the EU have been naive about China's intentions so we really think that the world is waking up to this and the Chinese government needs to understand this isn't about the blame game this isn't about even retribution we're trying to get to the bottom of a pandemic that has wrecked havoc around the world that has destroyed killed lives destroyed economies we're trying to get to the bottom of it so that way we can make sure that the world never has to deal with the pandemic of this scale ever again just what exactly is the US State Department's position on the origins of the Wuhan coronavirus how is this pandemic effectively become a test case of Democratic versus authoritarian governance and what should the relationship between China and the United States look like in the future in this episode we sit down with Morgan or Tagus spokesperson for the u.
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Department of State this is American thought leaders and I'm Jana Kelly morgen Ortega's such a pleasure to have you on American thought-leaders thank you for having me it's my first time great to be with you you know Morgan there's so many things I want to talk to you about related to China this has been a big topic on the show recently of course pertaining to coronavirus some of the difficult realities around that before I jump into that you know one of the things that we noted when we were preparing for the interview is that you pointed out asian-american and Pacific Islander Heritage Month just at the top of the month and I think it's particularly appropriate for a couple of reasons one that we were actually founded by Chinese Americans back in the day 20 years ago to speak the truth about communist China and and of course this is what we're going to talk about today but why is it that you're marking this particular month and at the State Department secretary as well yeah that's a great question we obviously really value the contributions that asian-americans and Americans a Pacific heritage as well contribute to our diplomatic core we have we have actually a very strong contingent as you know at the State Department and our ties to Asia to this Pacific Islands of course it goes back generations in fact I was just with secretary Pompeii oh gosh I guess it was last summer already a time really flies in this job whenever we went to Micronesia and visited and visited several islands there and it was just I don't know that I've ever seen him smile so much as I saw him smile on that trip it was just really wonderful to be in a place that just a value that values America every time we go to Asia we meet with people that are really on the front lines of communism and off their author Terry anism versus democracy and freedom you almost don't see that anywhere else in the world like you see when you go to Asia so we're proud of the contributions that asian-americans and Americans with Pacific island heritage and what they contribute not only to the State Department but to America in general and that's why we thought it was crucially important to highlight their contributions this month so you know let's jump right into it what do you make of these allegations some of them coming actually from Chinese Communist Party spokespeople and so forth that you know assigning location ie China or Wuhan to coronavirus is a racist thing yeah I mean as you know actually you can see this from the folks at the State Department who read Mandarin have pointed out to me that obviously it was the Chinese Communist Party that first pointed out that this virus emanated from Wuhan and we're assigning the origin in Wuhan that's just a fact right the fact that this virus emanated from Wuhan and from China is just a fact now what we're really calling on is to understand more about the origins of the virus we're calling on full transparency and openness from the Chinese Communist Party not just to the United States it's really China's trying to the Chinese government tries to make this about China versus the u.
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it's not we're not the only country that have called for an investigation the Australians have the Germans have many in the United Kingdom have called for transparency even the EU's foreign minister admitted that the EU have been naive about China's intentions so we really think that the world is is waking up to this in it and the Chinese government needs to understand this isn't about the blame game this isn't about even retribution we're trying to get to the bottom of a pandemic that has wrecked havoc around the world that is destroyed killed lives destroyed economies we're trying to get to the bottom of it so that way we can make sure that the world never has to deal with the pandemic of this scale ever again well since I have you here for whatever reason there remains some confusion about what the State Department's position is around the origin of the virus and I wanted to give you an opportunity for the record just kind of just spell it out I'd sure even people are calling me and asking me questions about this so yeah what what what do you we understand today at this moment about the origins of the virus well the reality is is that we can't say or certainty where this virus emanated from and that's what secretary Pompeo pointed out this morning when he was briefing the press at the State Department we know that the Chinese Communist Party has told the world that this virus emanated from a wet market now what we also know is that the underlying data that needs to be provided to credible scientists and doctors who would do a peer review of that data and analysis and also verify that claim that hasn't happened so maybe you did emanate from a wet market I don't know none of us will actually know until we have the data behind that for credible scientists and doctors to prove as the secretary pointed out he has seen a lot of circumstantial evidence related to the lab you know I think people are conflating the issues you know but obviously it's possible for a natural virus to emanate from a lab it doesn't just have to be a man-made virus it's also possible as many in the intelligence community have pointed out that things can accidentally leak from a lab without it being a purposeful or an intentional leak so what the job is of the US government is to work with like-minded credible and independent scientists and doctors around the world to find out can we get the data can we get the proof to to to validate one of these theories and and all of this whether it's from a wet market or a lab or somewhere else than others that we're not thinking of it all of this is circumstantial and without certainty until the Chinese Communist Party opens up to the world allows incredible scientists and doctors to verify data that's simply the point that we're making so what do you make of the fact that we know that some of that data was actually destroyed including the wet market being you know basically wiped out from what I understand yeah that's that makes it very hard to prove a theory I think the Chinese Communist Party just wants the world to trust them we certainly believe in verifying that dressed you'd say that this is about this isn't about blame right and it's not about politics so this is what secretary Pompeo said today I mean at the same time the secretary is calling for accountability and what's the distinction here well that's a good question I think the distinction is is we've got organizations like the WHL you know for example that should be above reproach they should be above influence especially any sort of nefarious influence from any country and they should be calling balls and strikes and being able to say you know what we can't verify XYZ data and we need and we need that data so that's really what we are you know that shows the stems from some of our frustration and the reason that what we have a pause and review of hande have the whu-oh and a review of their activities and what reforms they need because we do need our multilateral agencies to work we need them to be independent and we need for for somebody to have a credible voice to be an independent arbiter of this information you know another thing that the Secretary has talked about is and I think you alluded to this earlier as well is just this kind of need for trust to develop and to work with I think reliable partners is the is the is the term that I heard first of all you know what reliable partners does the United States have out there right now and I think you're also arguing that China has not been one you know that's a great question I think it's even the pandemic has been such an interesting test case of author terian governments versus democratic governments and it's amazing when you look at author terian governments like China like North Korea like Iran you see the the the illegitimate dictator in Venezuela when you see these author Tyrion regimes you see countries in which we know that they are under reporting the number of Kovach cases in the country I think North Korea said they had no basis I'm sure miracles happen every day I don't think that's one of them and you also see in these authors here in new James not only not only do we believe that they are under reporting the data of the number of cases they're also a likely grossly under reporting the number of deaths as well so it's very hard whenever you look at the you know that the projections or the various numbers coming out from around the world it's hard to compare apples the apples to author to your anxiety societies versus democratic societies where in democratic societies there is transparency people demand to hold their government account you know you get to see this in the United States every day you get to see the press questioning the president questioning secretary Pandey Pompeyo often and very vigorous exchanges those type of exchanges you would never see in China never see a questioning of Chairman ji the way you see it of President Trump so I I think that this has been if anybody was was sort of curious about how do aught Arian societies handle a pandemic versus democracies for me it's crystal clear now more than ever that type of transparency you only get from free and open societies and we just which and secretary Pompeo said this last week what we wish for the Chinese people and all people people of Iran and another nations that live under these author Tyrion regimes we wish for them the freedom and openness that we cherish as Americans so the Chinese ambassador to the United States says I'm going to quote this because I had it in front of me China has done its best to share information about the virus great well there's still a lot more to be done ambassador open up the country leden and let incredible and independent scientists and doctors to verify your claims it can happen tomorrow I think we're at secretary Pompeo said I think we're out of 20 days and Counting waiting on that to happen so Morgan actually something that the secretary does which we find very interesting and important is he oftens basically delineates a difference between the Chinese Communist Party and China he said it's very clearly Chinese Communist Party this the the distinction might be lost on some I'm wondering if you could speak to why he does well we think it's very important to remind Americans and to remind the world the true heroes of the true early heroes of the Cova 19 pandemic and those are the Chinese doctors the Chinese scientists the Chinese journalists the people that risk their lives some of them to blow the whistle on this pandemic some of them died from COBIT 19 some of them that the government made them disappear some of them were told as you alluded to earlier to destroy their work and to stop talking some of them imprisoned so we are grateful that at all people around the world in the healthcare profession but especially those early Chinese doctors and scientists who risked everything to blow the whistle and to tell the world what was truly happening so we want the Chinese people to know that we can only imagine for them how much more effective and creative and ingenuitive they could be if they were living in a free and open society that allowed them to speak and allow them debate without risking their lives to do so Morgan you know one of the allegations made about the idea of holding China accountable is that the administration wishes to shift blame away from itself what would be your perspective on this you know that that's interesting I hear that criticism I know from having worked for secretary Pompeo up-close-and-personal for over a year now that he was actually one of the first administration officials way back in February to to raise the alarm bells and say and to say that the Chinese government was not being open and transparent like we needed with the data like we would need to verify what was going on with the pandemic so secretary Pompeo has been clear and consistent he's been saying this for quite some time and now we know President Trump is taking a whole of America approach we have many businesses many government officials who are looking at our supply chains who are yet America now producing things that are important to American national security here you know really this pandemic has has highlighted just how correct I think President Trump has been since seen since he began campaigning for the office in 2015 about the need to protect our borders to bring crucial manufacturing home and for America importantly for America to have reciprocal relationships around the world to have an even playing field and that's what we're calling for in our relationship with China whether it's in trade or whether it's working on this pandemic or national security issues we want our diplomats in China to be treated the same way that their diplomats here are treated same for our journalists so what we want we know that America and China are do strategic competitors that's obvious to the world that's fine we can be in competition we can work in certain areas will disagree in other areas but while we are strategic competitors it needs to be a level playing field and needs to be a relationship of reciprocity and that's all we're seeking to do it's to balance out the field so Morgan in today's press conference the secretary mentioned I think it's about 900 million dollars has been committed internationally to support you know different countries coronavirus response and so forth it's interesting the kyv seen criticism in both directions I've seen people saying this is not nearly enough we need to help more and I've also seen the criticism why are we spending you know in this case it's 900 million dollars that's that's or perhaps more that's been committed why is that not focusing on the US what what is the approach here good question so if a 900 million isn't enough I would challenge you to find any other country in the world that is as generous as the American taxpayer let me just back up and put this into context for your viewers over the past two decades just the past two decades the generosity of the American people has been so prevalent and global public health we have given over the past two decades 140 billion dollars to global public health the global public health infrastructure that exists today is largely funded by the American taxpayer there is no country in the world that even comes close we saw earlier this week that there is an EU pledging conference as it relates to finding solutions to this pandemic we saw that the Chinese are representative and they didn't pony up a dime right so America continues to be I mean these are cold hard numbers American continues to be the most generations generous nation on the planet by a wide margin and we will be but the one thing that the Trump administration calls for is to be good stewards of American taxpayer dollars we want to use them wisely so I don't think that the generosity of the American people are ever in question we've committed as you pointed out today we just added new funds so it's over 900 million dollars in funds directly related to kovat 19 some countries that would be considered our worst enemies we've offered to help them because we want to help people around the world recover from kovat 19 no matter what sort of issue we may have with the government we don't have it with people with the people of those of those nations so we know that America will lead the world in köppen 19 recovery we will lead it from from a global health perspective and we will lead it from an economic perspective Morgan just quickly before we finish up what about to folks who feel this is this is too much spending given the economic challenges that we're gonna face imminently yeah that that is certainly a very worthwhile and robust debate that will happen in Washington amongst our appropriators which is of course the members of Congress they have allocated these funds to us and our job at the State Department is when these funds are allocated to be good stewards of American taxpayer dollars and that's what we'll do fantastic any final words before we finish up I just want to tie it back to your first question talking about Asian and Pacific Heritage Month here in America for Americans of those of those descents one of the you know beautiful things about America are our immigrants who who come here will become entrepreneurs who thrive it's just such a crucial part of the fabric of the State Department and of the fabric of American life and just want to continue again to recognize those those people of Asian descent and their contributions to American society while at the same time always remembering those early heroes in China those doctors and scientists some of them who gave up their lives who were disappeared by the Chinese government they knew the risk that they were taking but they took it to try and save the world from this pandemic and we want their families to know we remember them know very powerful words and I know that our the founders of the epic times and you know my boss are gonna be very very happy to hear what you just said such a pleasure to have you on Morgan it's great I hope to be back soon [Music] you.
